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Guards? GUARDS!

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Kvntess, Jul 2, 2016.

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  1. Kvntess

    Kvntess New Member

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    Alright so I'm new here, hello by the way, although not new to Arcanum. I've played for years, over and over, it's the game with the most replayability in my opinion and I can't get sick of it.

    But one thing is bothering me, so I figured I'd ask the modders here - what the hell is up with the guard AI. I'm currently playing as a necromancer prick, which sometimes matters and sometimes doesn't. See, in Ashbury after helping out the wee tech lad, I decided to keep his armour. He attacks me, so I kill him, and then the guards all turn hostile.

    I walk into the bar, generic male elf doesn't like me and attacks me. I kill him, the guards kill me.

    Random dwarf attacks me on sight, I kill him, guards kill me.

    I didn't start any of these fights at all - and I don't remember having this problem in any other playthroughs though I might've just got lucky with LoS.

    Why do they kill me for defending myself? I don't have overly negative karma, I'm a fairly good looking broad, is it just the way the AI is, is it set to protect citizens of the same faction no matter what happens?
    They didn't attack me when I killed the lad kicking Dog, so it doesn't really make sense.

    It's a load a ballix, so is there a mod to fix this, or do I just need to manage LoS better?
     
  2. papa_dog_1999

    papa_dog_1999 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if your good/evil meter has anything to do with this.
    You might try not attacking back and running to a guard.
    See if the guard attacks the attacker for you.
    That way you still seem innocent.
     
  3. Kvntess

    Kvntess New Member

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    Sure I tried, if I tell virgoo to wait and run to a guard, the guards don't care and I die. If I fight back after finding a guard, the guard will kill me. If Virgoo is there and he fights back, the guards will kill us both. It's maddening. (especially now running is impossible - Virgoo has decided he'd rather walk everywhere than run, no encumbrance or nothing, he's just going through a phase.. teenagers)
     
  4. Ruda

    Ruda Member

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    I think it has to do with factions. Although I haven't studied it in detail, everyone in a city are considered to be members of the citizens faction and guards (members of both the citizens- and guard factions) will protect them from harm. Boil residents and the thug gangs (robbers at the docks and university during the evenings) are excluded from the guards' protection detail and they will sometimes help you against them.

    One thing that I've noticed is that guards will occasionally react to a dead body although they haven't seen any violence. You can kill someone, chat with a guard and then if they later spot the corpse they'll go hostile. I believe that you need to be in their line of sight when they first discover it but I'm not sure. A bit off topic perhaps. Still, I'd also be interested in a more in depth explanation of guard behavior.
     
  5. Kvntess

    Kvntess New Member

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    I think you're right about the factions, Ruda, I read about it somewhere on the forums at one point - but shouldn't there be some sort of mechanic allowing us to defend ourselves from hostiles? IRL, if I refuse to give someone back their suit of armour (well, jacket, say), they'd still get done for attacking me over it.
     
  6. papa_dog_1999

    papa_dog_1999 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I can think of to add to the faction thing is maybe not giving it back counts as theft.
    If that's the case, then attacking you may be justified. Just as if you has robbed a chest or picked a pocket.
     
  7. Kvntess

    Kvntess New Member

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    You know, perhaps that's it, I didn't think of it that way.
     
  8. namad

    namad Member

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    In fallout2 children would throw rocks at you without triggering combat, if you entered combat and shot them... everyone in town would turn hostile and try to murder you.... because OF COURSE THEY DO!

    Basically the guards are on the side of the local citizens, you're an outsider, so they won't take your side. UNLESS they're bad guy bandits/monsters etc. It's standard CRPG trope stuff basically.

    It is kind of sad these games don't treat everyone equally though.
     
  9. Kvntess

    Kvntess New Member

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    A bit different though! Guards should arrest them wee bastards, but adults attacking people for being ugly or mean shouldn't be backed by the local law enforcement :(
     
  10. namad

    namad Member

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    same thing happens in fallout2 if you attack cannibals or sometimes even slavers, the guards aren't necessarily on the side of "good"
     
  11. on1ondevelopment

    on1ondevelopment Member

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    Hello there, welcome to the forums!

    As for the actual subject, my theory is that his initial reaction was too low after your being scarred in combat, or something of that sort. I mean, if you're evil and of an "inferior race", people have a low-value Suspicious reaction to you, which would increase to Neutral should you say something like "Please excuse my precense my good sir, I know I am not worthy of...". I suppose the effect was reversed, in some way or another. It's quite odd that he attacks you on sight, though. Thus, here are some dumb questions of mine: Did you wear the armour whilst exiting his basement? What was your reaction modifier, as well as his reaction to you before your returning to him? Did he attack you immediately upon sight?


    Also, a matter somewhat trivial, albeit still regarding this fellow and making me wonder if he is a particularly bug-ridden character. I've encountered other issues with the techy blighter in Ashbury too, he sometimes glitches out if one does not give him his armour to complete the quest. I've noticed it depends upon whether or not you're wearing the armour whilst talking to him. If you exit his house and are wearing the armour at that specific time, he will himself initiate a conversation stating that the piece is in fact his possession, at least I recall it being so, while if you exit the house and keep the armour in your inventory, he won't give a damn unless you click on him to speak. I also noticed that if you refuse to give him the armour during conversation, you'll be stuck in a loop and be unable to exit the speech window. Strange happenings, aye. Try leaving his house without wearing the armour, and see if that doesn't work.
     
  12. Philes

    Philes Well-Known Member

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    Apropos of completely nothing, the title of this thread reminded me of this old Onion article: http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/seize-him-16505

    I'm not sure why I didn't the first time I read it. You may continue with your regular TA-ing.
     
  13. Drog Alt

    Drog Alt Member

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    You (or your party) shouldn't land the first blow. Let them hit you first and then you've got your license to kill.

    Stupid I know, but that's how Arcanum works.
     

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