People get access to healthcare, Republicans go frenzy

Dark Elf

Some going so far as to threaten armed rebellion.

Interesting times in America.

Jojobobo · **Posted:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:08 pm **Post subject:**

I think it just seems ridiculous the Republican in question, Matt Davis, pussied out and pretty much retracted everything he said - saying the email was "unedited", he'd "take out the part about armed rebellion" and he didn't mean to hit reply all. If you're going to say something so bold and dramatic then at least have the spine to not back down and make yourself look like a moron.

I honestly don't get what the big deal is, sure your average person is going to have to pay slightly more than they already do and some are going to have to buy health insurance when they don't need it - but isn't the point of health insurance to begin with that sick people can get the treatment they need? There shouldn't be a system where the only people who can get health insurance at a reasonable price are those who are already healthy, and people with a lifelong chronic disease can't get the treatment they require - a law that rectifies that screwy situation can't be a bad thing.

Besides, I think we all know that denying sick people healthcare produces Jigsaw.

Dark Elf · **Posted:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:49 pm **Post subject:**

I also find it funny that the part of the act that Republicans used to criticise the most was the mandate, which is the part of healthcare reform they themselves demanded in the first place.

They also wanted to cut fire department spending, and now that western America is ablaze, they're chiding the Obama administration for not spending enough on fire departments.

Morons.

Zanza · **Joined:** Apr 20, 2009 **Posts:** 2770

magikot · **Joined:** Aug 29, 2003 **Posts:** 1670

There are so many better and less expensive ways to fix the healthcare system in this country. Massachusetts (where I live) has had this coverage for 6 years now. Romney's MassHealth plan is what Obamacare is based on. In six years health care costs have increased, taxes have increased, health care quality has decreased, sick individuals get their health insurance cancelled by the state without warning all the time so they can no longer receive their medications or surgeries, and you are incredibly lucky if you can have 5 minutes with a general practitioner instead of just a nurse practitioner trying to diagnose you (Example: my roommate has never met her doctor, despite going to her for four years. She only ever deals with the nurse). Health care is fucked in America.

Grossenschwamm · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:53 am **Post subject:**

I keep seeing ads on Youtube for Mitt Romney, and the key thing I notice is how he's going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with a common sense alternative. I don't know what his alternative is, though I admit I tend to lack common sense.

The biggest problem with Obamacare is prominent people shit on it (for a number of reasons) and don't offer a better alternative. Well, angry citizens have said on many occasions that the sick should just die, but I'm unsure of how that's better at the moment.

Grakelin · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:54 am **Post subject:**

I like the ones who threatened to move to Canada.

Grossenschwamm · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:15 am **Post subject:**

No one living outside the US actually wants to live with us.

We broke away from what was the most powerful empire on the planet, only to form our own while retaining the Imperial measuring system.

I still get a kick out of the folks lamenting our "downward spiral" into socialism when there are dozens of socialized institutions in place here already that are generally taken for granted.

Anyone enjoying a public park enjoys socialism, as well as anyone driving on a public road. Florida has some pretty nice public beaches, and this entire country enjoys fossil fuels purchased from companies that are subsidized by the US government.

Dark Elf · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:54 am **Post subject:**

I just don't understand. I live in what Sigurd used to call the Worker's Paradise of Sweden, so in true Communist fashion we have nationalised health care and all that jazz. Yet, we spend less of our GDP than America does on health care and the quality of our health care is ranked higher. What quagmire of a system have you made for yourself?

Of course, when the Tea Party crowd cheer when people ask whether the uninsured should be left to die, one ought to be worried.

Philes · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:35 pm **Post subject:**

I guess it's too easy for people to look at the conservative American's viewpoint and say "they're against people getting healthcare."

No reasonable person thinks this. No right-minded individual would promote needless suffering. I would like to hope that most people who are against "Obamacare" believe change is needed but don't think this *particular* type of change is for the better. As someone who works in healthcare I certainly can see this sentiment is coming from.

And OF COURSE there are batshit crazy morons who want to form an armed resistance cell due to this. The small % nutjobs who make for good news reporting always seem to color viewpoints incorrectly and I get pretty sick of it. People just love taking a shit on America whenever the chance presents itself I guess. I'm not saying we don't earn some of the vitriol directed our way, but sometimes I think it's the World's Pastime.

(Posted after a 26 hour shift tired out of my skull. No personal attack meant against you DE)

Grossenschwamm · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:41 pm **Post subject:**

I'm not saying Obamacare is awesome, but the sheer lack of alternatives actually being offered in the current political race is staggering.

magikot · **Joined:** Aug 29, 2003 **Posts:** 1670

Dark Elf wrote:

I just don't understand. I live in what Sigurd used to call the Worker's Paradise of Sweden, so in true Communist fashion we have nationalised health care and all that jazz. Yet, we spend less of our GDP than America does on health care and the quality of our health care is ranked higher. What quagmire of a system have you made for yourself?

Of course, when the Tea Party crowd cheer when people ask whether the uninsured should be left to die, one ought to be worried.

Health insurance companies are banned from selling plans across state lines, and people can sue for medical malpractice if they believe they were caused "undue emotional distress."

If I can find a health insurance plan cheaper in Kansas, why can't I buy that? Roughly 10% of the cost of all health care goes to paying for the doctor's malpractice premiums. If a doctor cuts off the wrong foot or leaves a pair of scissors in you, sure sue for malpractice. If the results of blood work come back positive when you wanted them to be negative, you weren't caused "undue emotional distress."

Grossenschwamm · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:01 pm **Post subject:**

When I was 10, I developed type one diabetes. Note that this was several years after I had been on my parent's health insurance diabetes free.

I was dropped because diabetes is a pre-existing medical condition. 5 years ago, I made too much money to stay on state medicaid, and had to buy my own health insurance. I bought a policy, and was told after I had already placed the first month's installment that none of my diabetes medications were covered, nor were any endocrinologist visits, until I had been a HighMark Blue Shield member for a year, which was $300 a month for no coverage relevant to me. I dropped my health insurance, ate through my savings of $2,000 by buying my prescriptions out of pocket, and went back on medicaid two months after I dropped Blue Shield.

This apparently can't happen since the affordable care act was passed. I think that's a plus.

What I don't like is how it was said this act wouldn't be a new tax, but it totally is. Though, the exact opposite of a politician's statements happening isn't really a new thing.

Another bad part of this act is that it's a broad sweep, nation-wide health care plan. A better move would probably be to make 50 state-wide plans, so you could potentially relocate to an area with better coverage. This was something proposed by Ron Paul, but he dropped out of the race because his campaign ran out of money.

Dark Elf · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:31 pm **Post subject:**

Philes wrote:

(Posted after a 26 hour shift tired out of my skull. No personal attack meant against you DE)

No offense taken. Needless to say, everything I know about the American health care system is second hand, and given that I derive most of my knowledge of American politics from watching The Young Turks the views I partake in are obviously biased. I also know I came off as very judgmental in this thread.

I wish to thank y'all for clarifying some points to me though. It seems that you have a giant mess to untangle, and I wish you good luck with that. If alternatives superior to the current act are lacking in the current presidential race, we can always hope that health care reform will be one of the core topics in the 2016 election.

TheDavisChanger · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:05 pm **Post subject:**

Sorry guys, I'm not very good with current events. Would somebody please catch me up?

Does this topic have anything to do with Kony?

Grakelin · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:03 am **Post subject:**

Yeah, he coated a bunch of little kids with invisibility paint then made them pay for kidneys.

DarkFool · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:18 pm **Post subject:**

I'm a fan of Obamacare. Why? I'm covered by my work. The only thing Obamacare stands to do is possibly lower my cost since I now have the option to go elsewhere for health insurance.

I dislike the idea that sick individuals die because they can't afford health care. I also don't like that you can sue a doctor for "undue emotional duress." I would promote, in addition to the passing of this bill, a re-examination of malpractice suits, and attempt to find a way to limit frivolous lawsuits, to further reduce the overhead required by doctors.

Grossenschwamm · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:10 am **Post subject:**

DF, people living in this country can be frivolous no matter what regulations exist.

You say they're frivolous, and someone else might say they don't like waiting to hear if their colon was actually perforated by that horse.

Smuel · **Joined:** Feb 22, 2011 **Posts:** 1051

Speaking as a doctor, I prescribe a swift kick in the nuts.

Disclaimer: I am not really a doctor.

Dark Elf · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:50 am **Post subject:**

I'm Dark Elf and I approve of this message.

Philes · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:59 pm **Post subject:**

Honestly, something is going to have to break in the next 20-30 years in American healthcare as far as costs/regulation/overall structure goes. I like lot of the ideas in other socialized systems, but there is a lot of positives to be had in the current American healthcare system as well.

I think the core problem is when people got cancer or were attacked by wild badgers or got hit by a runaway carriage or whatever 150 years ago they just plain fucking died. Now we have all this fancy technology and knowledge that helps prevent that. But nothing is free. Is healthcare an absolute requirement to life now? Maybe not, but in a perfect world we'd be able to figure out a way to distribute this awesome resource without too much unfairness. Like so many things in life, the answer to this question isn't easy, because if it was we'd already have figured it out, Goddammit.

Grossenschwamm · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:44 pm **Post subject:**

Philes wrote:

I think the core problem is when people got cancer or were attacked by wild badgers or got hit by a runaway carriage or whatever 150 years ago they just plain fucking died. Now we have all this fancy technology and knowledge that helps prevent that. But nothing is free. Is healthcare an absolute requirement to life now? Maybe not, but in a perfect world we'd be able to figure out a way to distribute this awesome resource without too much unfairness. Like so many things in life, the answer to this question isn't easy, because if it was we'd already have figured it out, Goddammit.

Just a few years ago, people who were newly diagnosed with terminal illnesses were still dying because they couldn't get health care unless it was out of pocket. Calling a condition "pre-existing" when it wasn't part of the patient's health at the start of their policy is a dick move. Making someone pay into an insurance policy for a year until their life-saving medication can be covered is a dick move. Because of the latter dick move, I went right back under the poverty line so I wouldn't die, and it was shown to me that it's cheaper to stay on welfare than actually get a job. That's really, really dumb. And the reason I can use those two moves as an example is because they could happen to anyone interested in health insurance up til at least this past June, not just those with diabetes.

People get access to healthcare, Republicans go frenzy

Who is online