Lowest Fatigue EVER

Muro · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:23 am **Post subject:** Lowest Fatigue EVER

DarkFool wrote:

This sounds like it ought to be a competition. See who can get the lowest fatigue, but still be alive. (screenshots necessary, of course)

Here’s my entry for DF’s contest. I seem to be the only participant but hell, I was doing this mostly for my own amusement anyway.

Ingredients for my screenshot:

A decent fatigue damage dealing weapon and a skilled warrior who won’t kill himself with critical failures during the session, which means a master was needed. Unfortunately. I gave Sir Garrick Douche an Arcane Stuff and in return asked him if he would like to beat the fuck out of me. He didn't say no.
A nice quiet and cool looking place where no one would interfere us (Zanza’s crib)
A Medical Arachnid from our good old friend, Hieronymous Maxim
A fuckload of time

So I thought: ”Since the current unofficial winner is Kirov’s -73, how much fatigue damage should I absorb and survive for my entry to make it a good one? A hundred? A thousand? Nah, that would be weak. But a million should do.”

As we can all see, the unimaginable destruction caused by the combined powers of Garrick and his Arcane Staff have shred my Smoking Jacket to particles, yet, luckily for me, my Boxorz of Might have proven to be worth every penny I’ve paid for them.

Fun fact #1: During the process of gathering that fatigue damage, Garrick has crippled both of my arms, one of my legs and has scarred me 238 times.

Fun fact #2: If, for some reason, Garrick would die all of a sudden (or escape from a Horny Zanza), here’s how much time would it take to regenerate all of that damage and get back to 0 fatigue for someone with:

Heal Rate: 1

Heal Rate: 2

Heal Rate: 3

Heal Rate: 4

Heal Rate: 5

Heal Rate: 6

And yes, I’m talking real time here, not game time.

Also, as you have probably figured out by now, with the setting I used (which anyone can arrange in vanilla Arcanum without any cheats) with Garrick (being a melee master and all) never getting a critical failure (therefore never damaging himself) and the Arachnid healing me without any limits, the lowest possible fatigue is minus infinity, or at least as much as the game is able to take without crashing or doing something silly like changing the value from negative to positive or something.

Dark Elf · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:49 am **Post subject:**

I like it how the field under the fatigue meter is blank.

How God-awful long time did it take to reach a negative million?

Xiao_Caity · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:51 am **Post subject:**

*whistle* Well that's something you don't see every day...

rroyo · **Joined:** Oct 14, 2006 **Posts:** 3292

Kee-ristmas.....

Viktor_Berg · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:35 am **Post subject:**

Impressive, to say the least.

Now set a goal to max out poison level without dieing.

DarkFool · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:51 am **Post subject:**

This might be an interesting competition. The "max out wierd specs" battle.

Muro · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:49 am **Post subject:**

DE wrote:

I like it how the field under the fatigue meter is blank.

It went blank something below -100, flashed a few times between -100 and -1000 and didn't show up even once after the fatigue went below -1000. It was so overwhelming for the game that it preferred to picture me as fatigue-dead, it would seem.

DE wrote:

How God-awful long time did it take to reach a negative million?

Total time was something about 3 hours and 20 minutes. You wouldn't believe me how many things one can do when he doesn't have access to his computer for that much time!

Viktor wrote:

Now set a goal to max out poison level without dieing.

That sounded quite interesting. I replaced Garrick's Arcane Staff with an Envenomed Sword and observed the results. It took him about 15 seconds to give me a 999 poison level and then, sadly, with the next hit, the poison level meter disappeared, never to be seen again. So the cap in terms of visible poison level is 999.

By the way, in those two screenshots we can see the flashing of the fatigue meter I mentioned in my reply to DE.

HaseoTOD1 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:52 pm **Post subject:**

Muro, to put bluntly, thats insane, but I enjoy insane.

Zanza · **Joined:** Apr 20, 2009 **Posts:** 2770

Thats loco hommes, When the poison meter vanished did the actual poison effect go as well or did you continue to take damage even though it did not display the meter?

Muro · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:33 am **Post subject:**

By poison level meter I meant the displayed value. The in-game poison level meter exists and keeps increasing with each hit, the game just doesn't show it, just like the fatigue meter under the blue fatigue vial turns blank when fatigue is below or over some value.

Crypton · **Posted:** Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:19 pm **Post subject:**

Nope! The lowest fatigue ever is -2^31, so its -2147483648, since Arcanum uses 4 byte integers for saving stats table.

PS: I can't believe that such topic gets sticked! You must be really bored :lol:

Edit: Screenshot deleted, bandwidth saving...

Dark Elf · **Posted:** Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:42 pm **Post subject:**

It's cool enough to warrant a sticky. At least it's creative.

Muro · **Posted:** Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:45 pm **Post subject:**

Crypton wrote:

Nope!

Nope what? I said -1'000'000 was the lowest fatigue ever achieved by normal means (and it still is), not that it's the lowest possible. Here, take a look:

I wrote:

Also, as you have probably figured out by now, with the setting I used (which anyone can arrange in vanilla Arcanum without any cheats) with Garrick (being a melee master and all) never getting a critical failure (therefore never damaging himself) and the Arachnid healing me without any limits, the lowest possible fatigue is minus infinity, or at least as much as the game is able to take without crashing or doing something silly like changing the value from negative to positive or something.

The negative million - as well as the choice of scenery and such - was just an amusing example of this to cheer the eyes.
Most importantly, I did it without resorting to hacking the game or cheats which would exceed that which can be done in vanilla Arcanum, since that was the very purpose of this contest. You can't say that about yourself, can you? No, of course you can't.

Crypton wrote:

-2147483648 (...) Proof: {a screenshot showing -2147483606:}

Proof? Lies! Oh so many lies!

Nonetheless Crypton, I appreciate your contribution, do not think otherwise. I actually hoped for someone to check the technical limitations. Pray tell, what will happen when someone will deal fatigue damage to a character with -2^31 fatigue points? Will the fatigue remain at that value or will something funny happen to it?

Charonte · **Posted:** Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:55 am **Post subject:**

It'll probably be truncated and reset to 0 or something else obscene.

Darkform · **Posted:** Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:58 am **Post subject:**

I find that in some old games, if the area that the info is stored doesn't have a buffer between sets of info that the amount over max caries over to the next stat. EX:

if current HP was stored in a spot and gold was stored right after it and you maxed your HPs you was ever able to get within the storage limits and then used a item that boosts your HP then you would get gold instead of HP.

it is a common thing in old games if you actually used a hack to get max and then did something that told the game to give more.

for this tho it's a negative and not a positive number so the 4 things I THINK would possibly happen is (once you hit -1 past the limit of the info storage.):

1) the next set of info starts dropping by the amount of Fatigue damage you take.
2) the previous set of info starts rising a point for each point of Fatigue damage you take.
3) the previous set of info starts dropping a point for each point of Fatigue damage you take.
4) your Fatigue will flip to max ever possible Fatigue and drop from there like normal. (this Fatigue will most likely drop to the chars char sheet displayed current stat max when you lvl or gain Fatigue in any way, including by heal rate.)

since the newest game I experienced this kind of thing with was made about 3-5 years before Arcanum I would tend to chose option #4. BUT Arcanum was packed pretty tightly when it first came out and therefore they may have not programed it to add a buffer between bits of temp stored info in which case ANY of the 4 outcomes could happen. I would still give #4 a larger chance of happening tho.

Charonte · **Posted:** Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:38 am **Post subject:**

That's probably more related to the store/read memory operations as each goes over it's designed size limits.

Doubtful that'd happen in Arcanum, the 'negative' aspect is just a sign bit which is generally the leftmost bit in binary. I.e, 1001 is -1 as the sign bit is positive. That's why it's 2^31 and not 2^32.

Treat the rest of it like a separate number, so at the maximum fatigue (pos or neg) all 31 bits are 1. Adding 1 to that would set all the bits to 0 and try to increase a non-existing bit, hence jumping to 0 or '-0' (which is still 0 computationally).

I'm too lazy to check, but either way.

thenewone · **Posted:** Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:57 am **Post subject:**

well i experience -53 one time in the ancient temple where 3 tattered bowman rain arrows at me, i was so lucky that i survive cause ive got 2 healers virgil and the guy who joins you in blackroot the priest guy.

Muro · **Posted:** Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:39 am **Post subject:**

The moment I started this thread I thought that -1'000'000 was good, but I did not know that eventually I will be utterly crushed by your groundbreaking -53. I think you should provide screenshots, because it is hard to believe it otherwise.

Viktor_Berg · **Posted:** Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:41 am **Post subject:**

Hey, -53 is larger than -1000000

thenewone · **Posted:** Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:31 pm **Post subject:**

okey.
just wait.

Darkform · **Posted:** Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:58 am **Post subject:**

Charonte wrote:

That's probably more related to the store/read memory operations as each goes over it's designed size limits.

Doubtful that'd happen in Arcanum, the 'negative' aspect is just a sign bit which is generally the leftmost bit in binary. I.e, 1001 is -1 as the sign bit is positive. That's why it's 2^31 and not 2^32.

Treat the rest of it like a separate number, so at the maximum fatigue (pos or neg) all 31 bits are 1. Adding 1 to that would set all the bits to 0 and try to increase a non-existing bit, hence jumping to 0 or '-0' (which is still 0 computationally).

I'm too lazy to check, but either way.

I've been doing STUFF. you may be correct about how Arcanum records current Fatigue, BUT I would SWEAR that in Arcanum Protos if there is a negative # then the bit would be FFFF for -1 and countdown until it reached the magick halfway point where instead of having a max negative you end up with a max positive then continue counting down from that. of course the theoretical max and min is way beyond what the Proto would ever need to function as a Proto. I would look it up and the Proto for the Upsy Dasium Gem in AWIP would be a good reference since it has such a high negative weight but there would be no point, even if you was wrong about the way Arcanum stores current Fatigue data I don't know enough about that part of Arcanums data storage to disprove what you say AND if I did look up and prove Protos do it a different way I would just make everyone think I'm a idiot for saying "a orange is good for making pies and this apple proves it"

to sum it up you may be right. and I refuse to argue with you on it since my understanding of the part of Arcanum you are using as fact is not good enough to confirm nor deny that you are right.

Charonte · **Posted:** Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:39 pm **Post subject:**

Eh? It's basic computer science, more or less all integers are stored in the same manner regardless of what they are used for. I wasn't trying to 'prove' anything, just discussing what I thought would happen.

Dear god man, get some sleep already. I was hardly picking a fight.

Vorak · **Joined:** Sep 15, 2003 **Posts:** 5681

thenewone wrote:

okey.
just wait.

I don't think he's coming back.

Lying bastard.

Darkform · **Posted:** Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:16 am **Post subject:**

Charonte wrote:

Eh? It's basic computer science, more or less all integers are stored in the same manner regardless of what they are used for. I wasn't trying to 'prove' anything, just discussing what I thought would happen.

Dear god man, get some sleep already. I was hardly picking a fight.

yes

Charonte wrote:

more or less all integers are stored in the same manner regardless of what they are used for.

but the reason I figure in Arcanum Protos store the integers in a different way from the rest of Arcanum is that when I mod a Arcanum Proto I get the felling the people that designed them didn't communicate well with the other Arcanum staff as to the layout and templates used for a LOT of stuff involved with programing (ether that or the Proto makers just sorta created the Protos using a code language loosely based on what the other Arcanum staff was using on purpose. probably to delay modders from being able to edit or create them)

seriously tho based on all the other programs I altered and the parts of Arcanum I understand enough to alter, Arcanum is the only program I've encountered that looks like 2 or more separate programs made by people that didn't know the others even existed where placed together by yet another completely different group of programmers that jury-rigged them to working together properly. (this is really why I don't think digging up a screen-shot of how Protos store integers would help. a translated hex inside a Proto doesn't always point to the same # in Arcanum. [why on earth would they make a translated hex that becomes N go to Description.mes N+20 for info instead of simply having it go to the # listed in the Proto? other than just to try and confuse modders trying to edit or create a Proto?])

Muro · **Posted:** Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:27 am **Post subject:**

I really have almost no idea what you people are talking about, but it should be possible to just check it, shouldn't it? Creating via editor a melee weapon that deals 0 damage and 10^9 fatigue damage with each shot, replacing the staff in Virgil's primary inventory with it, starting the game, attacking Virgil ans watching what happens is just a quick suggestion of how to do it. Sadly, I don't have the skills to do it myself. Crypton, where the hell are you?

Lowest Fatigue EVER

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